10ecjazzman
Nashville, Tennessee
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One of the Harley dealerships I frequent is across the street from the Honda/Victory/Yamaha shop. I cant tell you how many people rode in on Harleys to test ride the Vision the last time the demo truck was there. Heck....I wanted to ride it but the waiting list was too long. Just this past Saturday I saw two guys on Goldwings pull in to the Harley house to look at Electra Glides..go figure! Everybody is looking for the perfect motorcycle thats different from everybody else. You can't really trust forums to tell how good a bike is because they are full of folks like us complaining about the buzz,rattle,leak,noise,clutch,smoke,smell,mpg,crappy dealer, and horrible service that otherwise ruined owning that particular bike. The one thing we all seem to have in common is that we wont admit we are not that different after all. In the midst of all this there are those of us who just ride. There are days I would like to blow down my favorite back road on a bike like Kgzb's but I'm a bagger guy all the way. I like the Vision's adjustable windshield and the handlebar position, I love the back of the bike but I'm lukewarm on the front. The bags are cool to look at but need more space. I am a little put off by one of riding buddy's Victory that sounds like a fork in a garbage disposal when you downshift it but maybe he got a bad one. There you go..an honest opinion of a Victory to get the thread back on track.
* This post was
edited 08/12/08 09:37pm by 10ecjazzman *
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Payloader
Denver, Colorado
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Joined: 01/19/2004
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I have a friend who rides a Victory. He loves it. I like it too. It looks cool, sounds cool, and he spent a lot less than me. As for imitators, everyone at sometime or another follows the trend. From what I can tell the Japanese bikes imitated Harley's look, and only their look. They took harley tech and improved on it. A friend who has been riding the same Lowrider for over 15 years said years ago that he wished Harley would offset the cylinders for better cooling. Greenman is right, and I don't think Harley has had an original idea since 1903. If they have, they have kept it a secret.
I have a challenge for everyone, Name one technical innovation to the motorcycling world Harley has introduced in the last 50 years, other than the Softail.
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92lowrider
Bothell, Wa.
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I understand what you are saying! Its true H.D. is behind on the technology, But doesn't nostalgia and the fact its built in the USA say something anymore!
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THEBurninator
Washburn, MO
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Joined: 08/11/2003
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Payloader wrote:I have a friend who rides a Victory. He loves it. I like it too. It looks cool, sounds cool, and he spent a lot less than me. As for imitators, everyone at sometime or another follows the trend. From what I can tell the Japanese bikes imitated Harley's look, and only their look. They took harley tech and improved on it. A friend who has been riding the same Lowrider for over 15 years said years ago that he wished Harley would offset the cylinders for better cooling. Greenman is right, and I don't think Harley has had an original idea since 1903. If they have, they have kept it a secret.
I have a challenge for everyone, Name one technical innovation to the motorcycling world Harley has introduced in the last 50 years, other than the Softail.
Buell has come out with some neat ideas lately like fuel in the frame. But most don't count Buell as HD.
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flhrsi
Goodbye, So Long
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Victory is built in the USA
Buell is built in the USA
Fisher is built in the USA
MotoCzyz is built in the USA
Honda Goldwings are built in the USA
Innovation and leading-edge technology are the hallmarks of this great nation of ours. HD just isn't interested in being one of those companies, or rather they choose to let Buell be that side of the equation, but don't really support them them with advertising, higher R&D budgets, decent dealership experience, etc. I've said this a thousand times: If Triumph can build the Speed Triple-R, Daytona 675 AND the Bonneville, why can't HD do the same? If Ducati can build the Desmosedici AND the Sport 1000S, why can't HD do the same? If BMW can build the R1200GS AND the K1200S, why can't HD do the same? Nostalgic, low-tech bikes and bleeding-edge high-tech bikes exist in the portfolio of every major manufacturer of motorcycles, except HD. Even Victory (to get it back to the thread) has realized the importance of this in their Vision. It is light-years ahead of the Electra-Glide, even with the E-G's new frame for '09. The answer to these questions is that HD can do this, but it doesn't want to do this and chooses not to, at its long-term peril.
The Sportster, when it was introduced, was THE sportbike of its day, rivaled by none. Imagine how cool it would be if HD had chosen to keep it that way, year after year, meeting and beating back every challenge from Italy, Britain, Germany and Japan to keep it the best. How wonderful it would have been if the Big Twins had remained the nostalgia line, and the Sportsters were the dedicated performance line. A 2008 Sportster, with 50 years of passionate technological innovation applied to it, would be a liquid-cooled, V-Twin or V-4, say 175 HP or so, with slick body work, laser handling and all the good stuff like Brembo, Ohlins, etc. Imagine if MotoGP and World Superbike were dominated by the Harley-Davidson Sportster-R (racing version). Imagine the Ducati 1098 or the Aprilia RSV 1000 as the current street Sportster, offered right alongside the Springers and the Street Glides. Now THAT would be an HD I'd be proud of...
Greenman.
* This post was
edited 08/12/08 05:26pm by flhrsi *
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10ecjazzman
Nashville, Tennessee
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Yes ...made in the USA does count and so does nostalgia. I always try to support American companies even though they are sometimes not as fond of me as a consumer. I was drawn to Harley by nostalgia and the sense that finally I could own one and actually not worry about reliability. I thought it would be cool be get as close as I could to how my dad must have felt cruising on his Duo-Glide. But lets be real. The old guys will tell you our Harleys today are nothing like they were. Ours don't leak, don't foul plugs, have fuel injection, and actually start up 99% of the time. That said , a lot of us will add fuel systems, air cleaners, pipes, synthetic oil, braided brake lines, new pads etc. to get the bike where it should have been when it rolled out the door. I applaud Victory for taking a risk and stepping outside the boundaries. I hope they have the sense to treat their customers right. If they don't nobody will stick around while they work the bugs out of their technology and design. Simply put, Harley does not have to innovate because we still buy the bikes anyway. And many of us will continue to... for nostalgia.
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Payloader
Denver, Colorado
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"I understand what you are saying! Its true H.D. is behind on the technology, But doesn't nostalgia and the fact its built in the USA say something anymore!"
Nostalgia - A longing to experience again some real or imagined former pleasure. A whistful desire to return in thought or in fact to a former time in one's life; a sentimental yearning for the happiness of a former place or time. Homesickness causing severe melancholia. From Webster's Dictionary.
That's great that it's built here in America, but so is the Goldwing, and Toyotas. If that is all Harley has going for it, then why not buy them for the good resale value.
So, no it doesn't count for much. that said, I love the look of the bikes, and I love my Harley.
I want a new experience, I want to go forward, I want my own experience.
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howsit2003
J'ville,Florida
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...anyone here can buy any bike they want.....it's their money and they can plunk it down on any bike they want.
...since I was a youngster I've ridden most every type of bike made...I started with a 50cc Honda....and a wide variety of bikes since then....including several crotch rockets......
...I've owned 2 Harleys....
....none of the bikes I've owned give me as much satisfaction as my Hawg....it's an indescribable thing.
H-D is perfectly capable of making a " performance" bike. The V-rod is proof of that.
But think about this....H-D is a business !!!
And H-D knows that a HUGE part of their business is the AFTERMARKET !
Sure they could make and sell a H-D that has twice the power of the show room model for basically the same price, but why ???
They know that the average H-D buyer is going to spend another $3-4 grand or more....to jack up their bikes to where they should have been in the first place......and that's peanuts compared to what some bikers do.
Look at any H-D catalog...or any other other Aftermarket catalog that caters to Bikes....there is 1,000's and 1,000's of pages of every imaginable glitz, gizmo, chrome, doodad, thingy, horsepower enhancing, head turning money sucking device you could possible dream about.
99.9% of the aftermarket is geared towards the H-D biker and his hawg.
99.9% of any bike event is geared towards the H-D biker and his hawg.
Victory, Goldwing and all the other's can only dream to have such an aftermarket business.
Sure they make a better product going out the door....but from a purely business point of view.....H-D wins that battle hands down !!!
This has been...and always will be...the H-D business model going forward.
And that only accounts for the bikes....
H-D has a whole other gig going with apparel....they've plain and simple got a lock on that market.
H-D...with it's antiquated engine design....and 105 year old-hardly-changed-anything models......is still king of the roost !!!
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flhrsi
Goodbye, So Long
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Spoken like a true believer.
If you listen to yourself, your arguments condemn the Motor company, but you speak them and believe in them as though they are positive. Like the peasant in rags who puts their food money into the collection plate at church to serve "God", the true believers pony up their hard-earned cash, getting the absolute least value for their dollar, heads piously bowed to serve the "lifestyle"...
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flhrsi
Goodbye, So Long
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And another thing:
Honda motorcycle worldwide sales in 2007: 13,500,000 units
Harley motorcycle worldwide sales in 2007: 331,000 units
king of the roost, you say?
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